Flag for Taxon: Grasshoppers, Locusts, and Allies (Suborder Caelifera)

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Flag for Taxon: Grasshoppers, Locusts, and Allies (Suborder Caelifera)

Flagger	Content Author	Content	Reason	Flag Created	Resolved by	Resolution
loarie		Grasshoppers, Locusts, and Allies (Suborder Caelifera)	compared with OSF	Aug. 8, 2018 15:28:22 +0000	loarie

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@bouteloua et al. I did a comparison with OSF and here are the taxa that are in iNat but not in Orthoptera Species File if you want to investigate any

Posted by loarie over 5 years ago

Posted by loarie over 5 years ago

Posted by loarie over 5 years ago

Any preferred protocol / approach if one of these is in BugGuide ? For example, Melanoplus frigidus is documented by BugGuide.

Which one of the sources takes precedence ?

If it is BugGuide, do you want us to simply delete the flag ?

Posted by cmcheatle over 5 years ago

if we can fix the noncontroversial ones, it would be good to have broader discussions about the controversial ones and if OSF is 'behind' bring them to the attention of OSF

Posted by loarie over 5 years ago

@brandonwoo here's the list

Posted by maxkirsch over 5 years ago

yes curious to hear your thoughts here @brandonwoo specifically on bugguide / OSF discrepancies

Posted by loarie over 5 years ago

I noticed this issue with the phasmid species file--sometimes an old synonym will be listed somewhere on the website, but not included formally in their database as an invalid or unaccepted synonym. But you can find them by searching Google on their website, e.g.

site:orthoptera.speciesfile.org Melanoplus militaris

Edit to add: (IMO:) I don't think we should be following BugGuide for taxa that have better-curated taxonomies elsewhere.

Posted by bouteloua over 5 years ago

I would have said the same thing as @bouteloua - OSF as well as the other 'species file' websites sometimes have synonyms listed as full species, or other somewhat confusing things like that. It usually follows whatever the most recent taxonomic papers are which can lead to some mix ups. Some changes I don't necessarily agree with - for instance Orocharis as a subgenus of Hapithus (IMO these are clearly different genera) - but this is mostly a matter of opinion.

The BugGuide Orthoptera taxonomy primarily follows OSF, but since it has mostly been curated by David Ferguson in the past, he has left certain taxonomies as they were (e.g. Nebulatettix within Encoptolophus), or changed other things (Chortophaga australior = C. viridifasciata australior) based on what he believes to be correct. He has also erected quite a few 'no taxon' pages for things that are unidentifiable (like nymphs of Scudderia) or for species complexes (like the Melanoplus viridipes species group). Sometimes he has made new pages like the 'Trimerotropis pallidipennis-b' for a species that has not been described yet (thus isn't on OSF). I generally agree with him on most points, particularly with the melanoplinae and oedipodinae, since he has had a lot of field experience with those groups.

As one example, take a look under 'explanation of names' for Xanthippus sierra at bugguide: https://bugguide.net/node/view/587188

In a quick glance at the list of names above I see a few that are obviously just misspellings, and a few that David Ferguson at Bugguide treats differently than OSF. I also see a few that OSF treats one way, but I would treat a different way.

This is all to say that there's no easy fix and that taxonomy is always evolving :)

Posted by brandonwoo over 5 years ago

Kind of related, kind of not, but might be of interest. If you listen at all to podcasts, the Guardian Science Weekly episode this week covered the question of issues in taxonomic naming :

https://www.theguardian.com/science/audio/2018/aug/03/tricky-taxonomy-the-problems-with-naming-new-species-science-weekly-podcast

Posted by cmcheatle over 5 years ago

Wow - awesome work everyone on resolving the flags and many thanks to @kokhuitan who did a huge chunk of these. Looks like just these remaining open flags:
Trimerotropis species-a
Trimerotropis pallidipennis-b
Trimerotropis aldeana
Xanthippus sierra
Circotettix splendidus
Trepidulus haydeni
Melanoplus variegatus
Chibchacris bistrigata
Pedies variabilis
Dnopherulaini
Phlibostroma nebrascensis
Trauliini
Coryphistini
Acrida hungarica
Carydana catinata
Carydana caudelli
Carydana chirura
Carydana cultricerca
Carydana durangensis
Carydana falcata
Carydana gladiador
Carydana oreoeca
Carydana pollicifera
Carydana serrifera
Carydana tauriformis
Carydana tridactyla
Carydana emarginata
Carydana mexicana
Carydana pulchra
Carydana poecila
Adelotettix collacris
Tytthotyle mexicanus
Tropidacris violaceus
Abila collacris
Phaeoparia compressus

Posted by loarie over 5 years ago

Well for Xanthippus sierra I can quote from David Ferguson's comments at BugGuide: "This species has been lumped into the concept of Cratypedes lateritius [on OSF], but differs in the environment which it favors, is colored differently, and occurs as adult after spring". So they are kept distinct from C. lateritius on BugGuide - not sure if we should do the same here.

For Trimerotropis species-a I again quote from Bugguide: "This species is not unknown. In fact it is well documented in the literature; however, always under incorrect names. It has not received a name of it's own probably because of confusion with two other species"

Same general thing for Trimerotropis pallidipennis-b - these are things that are recognized as distinct, but nobody has given them an official name yet. I think we should continue to keep those 2 separate.

Posted by brandonwoo over 5 years ago

Anything I can do to help resolve these remaining flags or any other taxonomic issues left affecting Caelifera?

Posted by bobby23 almost 5 years ago

As per the rest of the flags that are not in OSF, here's the species, the source and reason.

Xanthippus sierra -- BugGuide; deviation from OSF
Circotetix splendidus -- BugGuide; deviation from OSF
Trimerotropis species-a -- BugGuide; undescribed species
Trimerotropis pallidipennis-b -- BugGuide; undescribed species
Ornebius kermadecensis -- none (temporary name?); undescribed species
Hemiandrus st1 -- none (fake name?); undescribed species
Malgasia afenina -- NCBI; nomen dubium
Malgasia kelikely -- NCBI; nomen dubium
Malgasia mahafaly -- NCBI; nomen dubium
Malgasia merina -- NCBI; nomen dubium
Malgasia sihanaka -- NCBI; nomen dubium
Hemiandrus superbus -- misspelling; see taxon swap https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/86731
Ectatoderus mexicanus -- none; might be Ornebius mexicanus from adjacent genus but no paper to support it.
Ectatoderus distinctus -- none

If you want my opinion on the flags, all BugGuide deviations should remain due to the reputation of David Ferguson in which it sounds many iNat Orthopterans agree. Other than that, undescribed species should not be added. Doubtful names (Malgasia) should all be inactivated. The last two, I'm undecided. Thoughts?

Posted by birdwhisperer over 3 years ago

Flag for Taxon: Grasshoppers, Locusts, and Allies (Suborder Caelifera)

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