Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
fateryga | kastani | Horned Orchid (Ophrys oestrifera) |
This is a synonym of Ophrys scolopax ssp. cornuta, please combine these two taxa, see the discussion at https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/21599778 |
Jan. 30, 2021 21:14:44 +0000 | abounabat |
done |
Change proposed here : https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/88943
@fatergya @abounabat I tried to commit the swap, but iNaturalist didn't allow me to commit it because O. oestrifera has subspecies. The only way to transfer it would be to de-activate the subspecies on iNaturalist. Since there are already observations on iNaturalist that are identified to the subspecies level, it might be better to preserve O. oestrifera and remove O. scolopax subsp. cornuta.
I personally agree that O. scolopax subsp. cornuta is preferable, but removing the subspecies of O. oestrifera might cause trouble if O. oestrifera is ever reinstated. Your thoughts?
@mercantour @kai_schablewski
@catullus agree for O. scolopax subsp cornuta even if some won’t like the abandonment of oestrifera I guess. About it possible reinstatement we can’t do anything yet …
Swap proposed here as a draft : https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/101706
Is it OK for all of you ?
Furthermore, the oestrifera group is often considered by orchidologists/botanists for grouping several Eastern species/subspecies. And when you know the typical Western O. scolopax, it is not shocking to group all the taxa into two separate complex entities : O. scolopax s.l. // O. oestrifera s.l.
In conclusion, I know that this grouping is not perfect, but the traditional grouping O. scolopax s.l. vs O. fuciflora is no more satisfying and has been proven to be artificial (phylogenetically incorrect).
@mercantour @kai_schablewski @fateryga
Swap proposed here as a draft : https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/101706
Is it OK for all of you ?
Now chaos has been created:
First, you made the accepted name Ophrys scolopax subsp. cornuta a synonym of Ophrys oestrifera.
The second problem is that only the subspecies Ophrys oestrifera subsp. cornutula is synonym of Ophrys scolopax subsp. cornuta. But you made Ophrys scolopax subsp. cornuta synonym of the SPECIES Ophrys oestrifera!!!
Now, if we want to do a taxon change in order to have the accepted name on iNat, we have to look at certain Ophrys oestrifera observations and re-ID them as Ophrys scolopax subsp. cornuta, because O. oestrifera has subspecies…
https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77065245-1
https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77189220-1
See https://doi.org/10.14258/turczaninowia.21.4.2
At present, all taxonomists in Ophrys know that O. oestrifera is not a synonym of O. apifera. These two species belong to two different macrospecies: O. fuciflora and O. apifera, which are accepted by R.M. Bateman et al. in their recent papers (2018, 2020). They, however, accept just 9 species of Ophrys at all. "Splitters" who accept 360+ species of Ophrys are also familiar with O. oestrifera (they however can treat it as a species separated from O. cornuta but of course not a synonym of O. apifera).
So please accept either O. scopolax subsp. cornuta and reduce O. oestrifera to its synonym, or vise versa (perhaps first way is better for the system of the iNaturalist).
Anyway, the present crazy situation (both O. scopolax subsp. cornuta and O. oestrifera accepted here with photos of the same plants) should be corrected.