Flag for Taxon: Typical weasels (Genus Mustela)
| Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| bouteloua | Typical weasels (Genus Mustela) |
taxon split? |
Sep. 23, 2021 13:20:25 +0000 | loarie |
Comments
Comment from @bmvig on the forum
A couple of years ago, I had ID’d this observation (https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/25926946 1) as genus Mustela, thinking it was either a Long-tailed or Short-tailed Weasel, which were both in that genus at the time. Since then, Long-tailed Weasel has been moved to a different genus (https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/94868 1).
My ID of Mustela remains the same, but it no longer means what it did two years ago. Should the taxonomy change have automatically fixed this (i.e. moved my ID up to the next common parent), or is that left up to individual users to find and correct these?
It seems pretty common to not know which kind of weasel something was, so we might need that genus taxon split here.
For some records IDed just to Mustela sp. in the past, that designation might still be correct, such as for records that might be either M. richardsonii or M. erminea. For those records that might be either Mustela (sensu stricto) or the recently resurrected Neogale (for the former M. frenata), the subfamily Mustelinae would presumably be the default ID.
I originally drafted a split between Mustela and Neogale using Atlases, but it was evidently difficult to delineate for the reasons @jnstuart mentions. I can re-examine the issue today.
This flag was split from a forum topic which is now closed. The user brought up an interesting issue, but I think in general an additional process to bump the ID to the next broader taxon might not be needed (unless the change were easy to make and could automatically apply to all such instances). This is also because in many instances an identifier would want their ID to remain as similar to what it was earlier as possible. The scenario doesn't occur very often. I'd prefer instead that notifications be sent to identifiers when a taxon change affects their past IDs.
unless the change were easy to make and could automatically apply to all such instances
this is the case.
Okay. Just to give my view (which maybe was unclear), I suggest keeping the system as it is or if possible notifying identifiers if a taxon change will affect their IDs in that specific way. It seems most taxon changes won't change IDs in that specific way, so I feel keeping IDs as close as possible to what identifiers originally intended is best. Otherwise, part of their intended ID's specificity is lost, a change which could also occur without them realizing. But, anyone is free to agree or disagree with this view.
Taxon splits for genera are quite normal on iNaturalist and represent the system "as is". Users are already notified when taxon changes that affect their observations are made (unless they turn this off in their account settings). But, notification-only is insufficient. People die or leave iNaturalist and their old IDs will need to be updated. The current situation actually misrepresents their IDs, as the meaning of the genus taxon changed from sensu lato to sensu stricto. You can learn more about taxon changes at the Curator Guide or get help with questions you may have at help@inaturalist.org but I don't think any further general commentary on taxon changes is needed here.
@bobby23 let me know if you need any assistance
I set up a taxon swap, and I am attempting to delineate observations at the genus level using atlases, but the site disallows me from assigning the United States to an atlas for a taxon whose rank is greater than species (in this case, Neogale). This is where most of the issues are.
@loarie is there a reason for this? Any workaround you would suggest?
@bouteloua I agree genus taxon splits are common, and am aware of notifications for taxon changes. What I meant is in most cases (I estimate) it won't be a specific circumstance comparable to the forum one, where 1 of 2 intended species options is moved. Much more often there will remain many species options in the genus, making it far less of a problem if one at all. As compared to, by changing it to a broader taxon ID we actually are changing the ID in a way the identifier may not have intended or want. My solution to use notifications wasn't meant as perfect fix. Nothing is, except if we directly commented/notified users. I mean some notification process may be ideal in my own opinion, since in most cases they might not need/want the ID to change to become broader anyway. We each are giving our own perspective, just like in the forum.
@bobby23 Definitely acting goofy - I also was unable to add the US to the atlas
I’ve looked at a number of records in CO and NM where stoats and long-tailed weasels overlap in range. Where the species ID is unresolved between these two, the current ID is to Mustelinae as it should be. There aren’t many. I haven’t yet looked beyond this region.
The two species of stoat in North America are another matter as I don’t know if the ranges are sufficiently known to properly assign. Have to look at the paper that elevates richardsonii.
any update on this split? Let me know if I can help
closing - please comment if action still needed
Looks like species now in a different genus were carved off earlier this year. Some manual reidentifications have occurred since then but that's insufficient to account for all past IDs.
@bobby23 Is there a plan to do a taxon split so that old genus IDs are reassigned or bumped to the common ancestor?