Flag for Taxon: brambles (Genus Rubus)
| Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| upupa-epops | brambles (Genus Rubus) |
add infrageneric taxonomy? |
Nov. 2, 2021 04:28:23 +0000 | Not Resolved |
Comments
Regarding the resolution message of that flag:
I think this can be considered resolved to some degree - although it may be useful to add in the subgenra and sections between the genus and species if they have ID value
I'm guessing they would have value (not sure if infrageneric taxonomy is used much in North America since Flora of North America doesn't use it, but I assume it is in Europe) but as far as I can tell the last global treatment of the genus is from the 1910s and more recent genetic work seems to suggest a lot of revision is needed. I wouldn't have any idea how to work with that. It could take a lot of work to cobble together something that incorporates all the new species and changes that have been made since the old list.
https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2307/2656957
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338085121_Target_Capture_Sequencing_Unravels_Rubus_Evolution
POWO has 1355 species/hybrids to account for, although I don't know if they all need to be accounted for now rather than whenever each one is needed on iNat. http://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:30000199-2
Perhaps also relevant https://www.jstor.org/stable/24637598
There is an entire field of "batology" focussing entirely on Rubus, with hundreds of enthusiasts. I guess it is up to them to decide on how finely they would like the iNat dictionary to delve.
@reinderw referring to your last comment on the other flag...
You laid out a taxonomy for subgenus Rubus in an earlier comment that we could work off of (sources would be great if you can find them). Are there other subgenera with sections and series as well?
What do you mean by mapping the series to the dictionary ranks?
Series is currently not an available rank on iNaturalist. The options go:
...
Genus
(genus hybrid)
Subgenus
Section
Subsection
complex
Species
...
Here is a feature request to add Series: https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/implement-the-botanical-rank-series-between-subsection-and-complex/17735
In its absence the staff seem to support using other ranks in its place, e.g. subsection would work here.
If anyone knows others experienced with Rubus taxonomy, feel free to tag them.
Series cannot be used in iNaturalist as they are rankless and can be anywhere.
The easiest is to "remap" the Rubs classifications from whatever it is into
Subgenus
Section
Subsection
complex
and then use that. The remappig will have to be carefully documented and agreed upon.
Here's a couple databases that includes all subgenera and have species listed for each:
https://gringlobal.iita.org/gringlobal/taxonomygenus.aspx?id=10574 / http://genebank.ilri.org/gringlobal/taxon/taxonomygenus?id=10574
https://www.biolib.cz/en/taxon/id39612/
(edit: http://www.scientificlib.com/en/Biology/Plants/Magnoliophyta/Rubus.html)
No idea how complete or accurate they are.
European sources I've found so far only cover subgenus Rubus, e.g. http://www.jnecology.uk/rubus/rubus-classify.html, https://library.wur.nl/WebQuery/wurpubs/490000
@lern @convallaria1128 do you think Rubus taxonomy would be helpful for identification? If so, do the sources above seem accurate or do you know of good sources?
If adding Series can be achieved that found be great. I suppose the order of rank might be:.
Subgenus Rubus = Rubus fruticosus complex
Section
Subsection
Series
Species
Note that in Britain and perhaps Ireland research grade records are being transferred from iNaturalist to iRecord but only species records are included so any records to the aggregate level of Rubus fruticosus are not transferred.
@tonyrebelo I've never heard of series being anywhere other than just below subsection. Are there examples of it in other places?
@lern so e.g. a Research Grade genus level fly would not be transferred?
I don't know how many species are in each series; when we added infrageneric taxonomy for Salix we opted not to go down to subsection because the sections already narrowed it down to a small number of species. Subsection could always be added later if requested, it just didn't seem necessary at the time and iNat prefers us not to add unnecessary levels to reduce site load.
Animals have series at the order level.
Ah, the same is true with section. iNat has "zoosection" and "zoosubsection" for that which I'm pretty sure don't exist under those names in any other system.
A genus might be transferred if to research grade but suggestions to a level such as Rubus fruticosus agg. and not to the species level are probably not coming through to iRecord. One to check.
@upupa-epops @lern @tonyrebelo @reinderw Just a heads up, we have movement on this, independent of this flag - see https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_swaps/122502#activity_comment_f0fd61ce-c1db-4d0a-8b16-083dd6217c30
Much of it has already been completed but now is the time to chip in with any refinements you view as necessary.
See https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/216741