Flag for Taxon: Pink-striped Oakworm Moths (Complex Anisota virginiensis)
| Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| smithsqrd | treichard | Pink-striped Oakworm Moths (Complex Anisota virginiensis) |
of a taxon swap in 2020 |
Dec. 17, 2022 00:06:26 +0000 | Not Resolved |
Comments
@smithsqrd Are you referring to the species or the complex? There are no observations of A. virginiensis s.s. in Florida.
@thomaseverest The species, I don't know why the complex still exists?
OK just checking because you flagged the complex. Species complexes are used to group species that are often tricky/impossible to ID by external morphology. So you're saying most of these observation should be moved?
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/81584-Anisota-virginiensis
Maybe @treichard can shed some light here as the complex has no source.
By my understanding this observation should be at the genus level, not listed as a complex.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/139886453#activity_identification_66f0150b-9fe8-4508-bd79-7d0a6c95e17e
"Should" is subjective to whoever is curating these taxa (unless you think there is a bug). Complexes can be helpful in providing IDs that eliminate certain species.
In response to your comment on this observation: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/115737#activity_comment_fd385876-57ea-41ee-b254-3f5c07dcdc2f
This text has been posted on hundreds of observations "In 2019, the Florida population of Anisota virginiensis was separated into its own species, A. pellucida.". Example https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/3820608
I would argue that this complex is introducing conflict, and the number of records that I have tried to help ID would suffice for "asking around". There are still hundreds of observations that are incorrect because of the taxon swap, and new records using the old taxonomy are added daily.
OK I think I see the problem. A. pellucida was elevated to subspecies, but A. virginiensis s.l. was not split into A. virginiensis s.s. and A. pellucida. IDers have corrected all these observation so there are no observations IDed as A. virginiensis in Florida, but there are still over 500 observations that have an active ID of A. virginiensis there. A split would update all of those.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?ident_taxon_id=81584&locale=en&place_id=21&preferred_place_id=1&subview=map
By asking around, I meant find someone who knows this group to commit the proper split. I'd prefer not to because I know very little about insect taxonomy.
Now, as to the complex, you think it is unhelpful because it has the same name as the species that doesn't exist there? New observations using the species ID don't have anything to do with the complex that I can think of.
Thanks for that link @treichard. Wouldn't it make sense then for the species level ID to not exist, so that all observations are lumped together in the complex?
@thomaseverest It was elevated to full species, as far as I can tell. Perhaps my confusion is that I thought the purpose of the flag was to garner the interest of someone that could make that decision. It feels like telling me to ask around defeats the purpose of the ability to flag a taxon, unless the act of flagging is intended to be done by an expert with answers in hand, in which case I greatly misunderstood.
You mention that the complex provides a finer ID that if the differing IDs left it at the genus level. Perhaps, but I don't think that's the case now that is has it's own species. Users add the wrong species daily, not the complex. When a new ID is added with the correct it places the observation in the complex.
I would ask if you are willing to clarify on the forum that community involvement to manually correct these observations does appear to be the only solution.
Perhaps I can expand on this flag from my point of view. I am approaching this from a point of view that deals with the user, members of the community that upload observations and contribute identifications.
Because of design, there are thousands of identifications provided on this 1 species, with the goal of getting the RG label, which again is designed by iNat as the goal/reward.
If the taxonomy is ambiguous then the design should protect the user, in my opinion.
I suggested flagging so that another curator with the necessary knowledge could take the curatorial action of drafting/committing a taxon change. That's still the case: someone needs to split A. virginiensis because a swap didn't update everything—community involvement can do this manually, but it's very inefficient. If you know of any curators who could do this, I recommend mentioning them and asking if they could help. Flags are the perfect place for asking around. I do it all the time. (See similar discussion here.) I was just adding follow up comments to figure out exactly what was needed for whoever is going to do that.
Yes I agree with your last comment. Splitting A. virginiensis would move hundreds of IDs into agreement with each other.
iNat support recommended this taxon be flagged so that southern IDs of Anisota virginiensis can be swapped to Anisota pellucida.