Flagger Content Author Content Reason Flag Created Resolved by Resolution
kharkovbut Eastern Short-tailed Blue (Cupido decolorata)

it should be merged with Cupido decoloratus

Jan. 3, 2019 22:50:22 +0000 jakob

done

Comments

Posted by jakob over 4 years ago

Hi Jakob, Cupido decolorata and Cupido decoloratus are indeed one species. Somehow in Lepidoptera there is rarely ever concensus if a species name should be male or female. Best wishes, Chris

Posted by chrisvanswaay over 4 years ago

Some remarks. "Decolorata" was used in the original description. In the European checklist by Wiemers et al. "Cupido decoloratus" is used, which is grammatically correct. Generally, in that paper generic and specific names were placed in gender agreement, as is required by the Code. However, there is a tradition in the majority (but probably not the whole of) lepidopterological community to use the original spelling of species names, NOT following gender agreement (against the Code!). Recently, a paper objecting the decision made by Wiemers et al. appeared, see https://nl.pensoft.net/article/34187/
This paper strongly recommends to use "Cupido decolorata".

Thus the situation became more complicated... :) However, the situation here, having the same entity splitted under two names, is stupid and inconvenient (say, if one wants to see all observations on the same map, or whatever). I strongly recommend to resolve it somehow, in one way or another. I cannot recommend the "preferred" name, but I think in a sense it does not matter; after stabilization it would be possible to change the gender to the concensus version, if necessary. If it is hard to choose, we can at least toss a coin. :)

@jakob @chrisvanswaay What do you think?

Posted by kharkovbut over 4 years ago

Hi @kharkovbut, I fully agree - having 2 valid names of the same species here on iNat should be avoided by all means. I don't want to make the decision as I'm not a professional lepidopterologist. After having read the letter by van Nieukerken et al., I'm sympathetic to their points. So maybe we want to adopt the Checklist by Wiemers et al., except for the spelling of the species epithet of the 14 species listed in Table 2 of van Nieukerken et al?

Maybe you and @chrisvanswaay can tag (@) a good number of iNat lepi folks here to get their vote before a decision is made.

Posted by jakob over 4 years ago

This is a purely taxonomic issue. I am not a taxonomist, but I would be completely OK with your proposition (to base on Wiemers et al except that 14 species). It would be grate to have a consultation of an experienced taxonomist, but I am afraid we do not have many here... Among knoledgeable people we do have, some might not be interested in this problem (for whatever reason). But let us try. I will also tag some people from North America, hoping they may give a good advice.

@chrisvanswaay @ronan_a @yoshik @rafaelmatias @mnauky @jkt @okoem @cossus @nlblock @rosslayberry Could you please read the above discussion and say a few words on your opinion? Also, if you want to ask others, do not hesitate to tag them here. Thanks.

Posted by kharkovbut over 4 years ago

You might have seen I am one of the co-authors of the Wiemers et al paper, although I am not a taxonomist, but more the one driving others to get it sorted out and published. And indeed Erik van Nieukerken contacted me very soon, as he was not happy at all. Personally I would simply follow Wiemers et al as iNaturalist. But I think Erik is working on a new, complete list, including the moths. As a butterfly conservation person I don't care a lot. Make a choice, and get things going! But two species names for one species is silly.

Posted by chrisvanswaay over 4 years ago

A link to the Wiemers paper: https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/28712/. I think the authors list contains most of the taxonomists on butterflies in Europe, the paper by Erik van Nieukerken the other few.
For some reason taxonomists always fight with each other.

Posted by chrisvanswaay over 4 years ago

The grammatically correct form is used in Finland. I don't know about the other Nordic countries, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do the same. Personally I don't care which is used as long as there is just one taxon. Even better would be to retain the other as a synonym, which automatically gets changed to the other, when entered.

Posted by jkt over 4 years ago

Take my opinion for what is worth, as I'm not a Taxonomist (nor a professional Lepidopterologist, despite my love and 'afficcion' for the area), my main research area has been seabird ecology.
Regarding the above issue, I'd just follow the CODE, as that seems to be the only (in my opinion) objective and sensible thing to do, being this apparently simply a gender agreement issue (Arts. 31.2 and 34.2 of the code); Cupido is a masculin noun, thus it should be C. decoloratus; this could be applied to other taxa in this website, namely Carcharodus tripolinus (which is currently included as C. tripolina).

I'll transcribe below art. 34.2:
"Article 34. Mandatory changes in spelling consequent upon changes in rank or combination
34.2. Species-group names
The ending of a Latin or latinized adjectival or participial species-group name must agree in gender with the generic name with which it is at any time combined [Art. 31.2]; if the gender ending is incorrect it must be changed accordingly (the author and date of the name remain unchanged [Art. 50.3.2])."

Cheers

Posted by rafaelmatias over 4 years ago

I remember that @cabintom mentioned that lepidopterologists have a tradition to ignore the Zool Code with regard to a strict gender agreement b/w genus & species epitheth and instead seem to use the original spelling.

Posted by jakob over 4 years ago

My experience is almost entirely limited to African Lepidoptera, but yes, we ignore gender agreement and use the spelling employed in the original description, all while being aware that it doesn't follow "the code".

At this point in history, I think this is of good practical use. Genera are constantly being revised, so there's not much stability. Take Brakefieldia, for example, which includes a number of species that, in the past 30 years, have been placed in combination with 4 or 5 different genera. Until things settle down, have the specific name change spelling would lead to confusion.

In regards to iNaturalist, I'd suggest we follow suit with what is in actual practice. Keeping to species with which I have familiarity, yes, Bicyclus dentatus may be correct according to the code, but those who have anything to do with African Lepidoptera will see that and wonder about the choice of spelling and likely seek to correct it. In that case, following the code is actually going against the grain, and introducing more confusion. The majority of Lepidopterists may be "rebelling" on this point, but most of us are in agreement that breaking the rule makes good sense, so we've made a rule unto ourselves.

Someone has already linked this article above, but it's more articulate than I and deserves attention: https://nl.pensoft.net/article/34187/

Someone also mentioned making sure that, with whichever spelling is chosen, the other one remains as a synonym. I think this makes good practical sense (though I believe it should happen automatically).

Lastly, should the decision be to go with decoloratus, don't be surprised when someone(s) neck deep in butterflies flags it to say it's spelled wrong.

Posted by cabintom over 4 years ago

*** It's actually Bicyclus dentata in practice.

Posted by cabintom over 4 years ago

Sorry! Last post for now.

Let me quote Adam Cotton, who is a world expert on Papilionidae and is based in Thailand, and is generally a stickler for "proper" nomenclature:

"There is a general agreement among lepidopterists that gender agreement articles (31.3 & 34.2) of the ICZN Code should be ignored and original spellings be used except where mandated by other articles of the Code, as per the resolution of the Societas Europaea Lepidopterologica discussed by Sommerer (2002) (To agree or not to agree - the question of gender agreement in the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. Nota Lepidopterologica 25: 191-204, available here: www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/41371975 ).

Eminent lepidopterists around the world follow this recommendation, including the ICZN Commissioner who is an expert on nomenclature of Lepidoptera, Gerardo Lamas. Here's an example of a recent paper which mentions this issue:
Kitching, I., Rougerie, R., Zwick, A., Hamilton, C., St Laurent, R., Naumann, S., Ballesteros Mejia, L. & Kawahara, A., 2018. A global checklist of the Bombycoidea (Insecta: Lepidoptera). Biodiversity Data Journal 6: e22236. doi.org/10.3897/BDJ.6.e22236

The major exception is the Japanese Lepidoptera community who still conform to gender agreement articles."

Posted by cabintom over 4 years ago

Interestingly Gerardo Lamas is co-author of the Wiemers et al paper: https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/28712/

Posted by chrisvanswaay over 4 years ago

To be blunt, from an iNaturalist perspective, I think this disagreement means basically nothing. If one name is merged into another, the "old" name is still retained as a synonym attached to the remaining one. Thus, a search for either spelling will still lead to the correct taxon and the data of interest.

Both sides make a good argument. We should just flip a coin and pick one to merge into the other on iNat. Meanwhile, the taxonomic disagreement can continue to play out in the literature. :-) People will still be able to find sightings data on the species here, regardless.

(And I don't say any of this to be dismissive of the debate itself. I love taxonomy, discussions of species limits and naming, etc. In this minor case, I just don't think it's particularly relevant to iNat.)

Posted by nlblock over 4 years ago

@jakob I think this should be finalized. We have a split decision, but we can use your proposition (to adopt the Checklist by Wiemers et al., except for the spelling of the species epithet of the 14 species listed in Table 2 of van Nieukerken et al) or flip a coin. Otherwise the discussion we have here will go for nothing...

Posted by kharkovbut over 4 years ago

I've made the relevant changes. Let me know if something is missing.

Posted by jakob over 4 years ago

@jakob Thanks! It seems perfectly OK.

Posted by kharkovbut over 4 years ago

Add a Comment

Sign In or Sign Up to add comments