Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
pinonbistro | alan_rockefeller | Variety Clitocybe squamulosa montana |
it should be Infundibulicybe squamulosa |
Sep. 22, 2022 18:53:24 +0000 | Not Resolved |
Index Fungorum is not a good source for infraspecific taxa as they synonymize all of them to their type. Now it should be assessed if the variety is useful or not. I would tend to think it is useful as this variety is restricted to a geographical area and very different morphologically from the type.
I think the issue that @pinonbistro is raising is that iNat has Clitocybe squamulosa var. montana grafted to Genus Infundibulicybe and sibling to Infundibulicybe squamulosa.
On iNat, ssp should be grafted to species that have the same genus/species in their trinomials
The issue of whether we're going with Clitocybe squamulosa or Infundibulicybe squamulosa is a separate issue (which doesn't have a clear answer since we have no reference for Fungi).
Please create Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana grafted to Infundibulicybe squamulosa
and swap Clitocybe squamulosa var. montana into Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana
Likewise if you want to go with Clitocybe squamulosa instead of Infundibulicybe squamulosa please make sure you make all the changes to make the above condition correct (ssp should be grafted to species that have the same genus/species in their trinomials)
@loarie I deleted a swap that was created and was merging Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana into Infundibulicybe squamulosa. It was a completely different question yesterday. I agree on the fact it should be grafted under the type name Infundibulicybe squamulosa (it is now done).
Should Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana be created? This name and combination doesn't exist currently and I always thought that only published names should be used on iNat.
I think the cost of having a name combination like Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana that isn't published when its implied by the hierarchy (e.g. descending from Infundibulicybe squamulosa descending from Infundibulicybe)
is much worse than the cost of having trinomials (ssp) and binomials (sp) grafted to parents that don't have consistent names, especially when we have no reference to follow, as in the case with Fungi
@loarie I see the problem. However, wouldn't it also be possible to only list Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana as synonym so it shows in the multiple search bars. Or are there other problems that come with that?
Just for the record I don't agree that invalidly published names should be added - at whatever rank.
What is the difference between allowing invalid trinomials such as Infundibulicybe squamulosa var. montana, or effectively creating dozens of invalid combinations at species rank for Aecidium in Puccinia?
https://inaturalist.nz/taxa/84769-Puccinia
Please don't do that. Plant pathologists would not be happy.
on iNat, genera should match the generic part of downstream species binomials and species binomials should match the binomial part of downstream ssp trinomials. So I guess the other option is to stick with older combinations like Clitocybe -> Clitocybe squamulosa -> Clitocybe squamulosa montana until all the names are published to move to new combinations like Infundibulicybe squamulosa. I guess both not ideal options, but thanks for keeping names consistent
There's a thing I can't understand in this situation. Is the fact of having inconsistent trinomials a technical problem or just a policy problem? It feels weird to have to make up names for trinomials while it's strictly forbidden for higher ranks. And keeping the old name feel just as weird as literature updates to these names and this creates disparities between iNat and literature... Or is there something that I'm missing?
As a community curated resource, there are tons of mistakes/accidents introduced into the iNat taxonomy. We rely on certain rules - e.g. names can't contain special characters like .$%$#, no active taxa can descend from inactive taxa, e.g. upstream ranks (e.g. genus) can't descend from downstream ranks (e.g. species), and checks to make sure the 'nomials' are consistent (e.g. no species descends from a genus that don't share the generic part of the binomial). Keeping the iNat taxonomy clean enough to be able to share externally and use internally for applications like training the vision model is a huge task for our tiny staff so these rules and checks are very necessary tools. This issue comes up with other groups like plants, but Kew/POWO/IPNI takes responsibility for maintaining a list that is consistent despite the things that you mention. I wish there was a similar body for Funig
I am a member of the International Commission for the Taxonomy of Fungi (ICTF) and one of our groups is looking at the issue of a globally consistent checklist. However, the current view is that whilst possible for higher taxa, it is unlikely at species level. There are too many species, too few mycologists, and still too much change due to the shift from morphology to phylogenetic-based species concepts. Those issues are combined with the still on-going consequences of the abandonment of dual-nomenclature (different names for sexual/asexual forms) some years ago. So, the situation is unlikely to change and especially impacts iNat 'popular' fungal groups that aren't the focus of most pathology-based taxonomic effort (i.e., where most mycology funding goes). I did think the iNat open curation system at least demonstrated a good model for a way forward, although recently I've become less certain of that.
I do think that having, for example, all Aecidium species placed under Puccinia is a sensible way forward given the current iNat taxon data model. It is both nomenclaturally and taxonomically correct, even if it looks odd. To leave a synonymised genus present simply to provide a parent name for uncombined child taxa inevitably leads to incorrect use of that genus for observations and an invitation to double-up synonymous species names. Leaving legacy synonymised genera also doesn't provide the very helpful nudge that Aecidium is really just a different life-stage of Puccinia. The alternative of creating effectively invalid combinations is simply wrong (under ICN) and will lead to even greater confusion, especially when these fictitious names 'collide' with the GBIF/CoL hierarchy. There would be kick-back from the professional mycological community if these invalid names leak. In the iNat fungal hierarchy you will find very many examples like Aecidium/Puccinia so this isn't an isolated example. Trinomials add to that.
http://www.speciesfungorum.org/Names/SynSpecies.asp?RecordID=487934