Flagger Content Author Content Reason Flag Created Resolved by Resolution
deboas Hardy slipper orchids (Genus Cypripedium)

conservation status for Sweden appears to have been added for all taxa, including those which do not occur in Sweden

Mar. 6, 2023 12:21:28 +0000 kueda

not something curators can resolve

Comments

In what looks like a similar case to this one for Orchidaceae (https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/608886), it appears that bulk conservation status for Sweden was added in May 2021 to many (all?) species in this genus, including many species not found at all in Europe - for example Cypripedium acaule, Cypripedium parviflorum, Cypripedium montanum and others.

This case seems less bad than the Queensland case, as it doesn't appear to have over-ridden lots of previous work to set open/obscure status for species, but nevertheless we should avoid adding conservation status for species that don't occur in a jurisdiction. Better to add status only to a list of species known to occur there, and not to all members worldwide of a genus.

In this case, the only species of this genus so far recorded in Sweden is Cypripedium calceolus and only four species or hybrids of this genus have been recorded in the whole of Europe on iNat, so adding conservation status one-by-one for Sweden would not be onerous.

I would suggest that the bulk import of conservation status to all/most Cypripedium be reversed, if possible.

@cynips @tiwane @loarie @kueda

Posted by deboas about 1 year ago

We just deployed a change that shows you when a status is being applied from a higher-level taxon, so that might provide a little more transparency into this issue, at least. Can you provide the URL of an observation that was inappropriately obscured? That would help us investigate the problem you're reporting.

Posted by kueda about 1 year ago

That change is helpful, thank you, Ken-ichi, but I would suggest that it's not enough. The issue here is not that observations have been obscured (the status added in this case was with open geoprivacy, and anyway will not take effect on the species affected, which are not found in the jurisdiction) but that it doesn't make much sense to clutter up the conservation status section of 40+ species of orchids with a status for Sweden when only one of those species actually occurs in Sweden. Why should an orchid endemic to Taiwan be given a conservation status listing from a European country? It's redundant and inaccurate, and it will make it increasingly difficult to find relevant information in the section on conservation status.

It's doubly redundant because the only relevant species Cypripedium calceolus already has a conservation status entered at species level, so all this bulk run has done is add a duplicate status - this can only lead to confusion when someone updates one in the future and not the other.

Even if the Swedish law has decided to protect all species in the genus, the clear implication is that this applies only to species that could plausibly occur in the wild in Sweden, not species that only grow on the other side of the world. These statuses should have been added only for such species.

Posted by deboas about 1 year ago

Got it, so it sounds like your problem here is with what is displayed under the "Status" tab of a taxon detail page like https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/54638-Cypripedium-calceolus, not about any problem with existing intended functionality or with anything a curator could do something about. Please make a feature request to this effect in the Forum: https://forum.inaturalist.org/c/feature-requests/16

FWIW, I definitely agree it's weird to show these statuses in this context, but I'd need to think more about whether we even can efficiently remove them.

Posted by kueda about 1 year ago

Yes, that's my main objection here (on the Queensland issue, there are other issues too, with the bulk upload resulting in lots of multiple status entries). I've submitted a feature request. Thanks!

Posted by deboas about 1 year ago

Thank you, Carrie!

Posted by deboas about 1 year ago

Hi, I'm assuming here we are not talking conservation status, but rather taxon geoprivacy. The species Cypripedium calceolus is in the Red List category LC in Sweden, not threatened, and I don't think the genus level is even assessed.
When it comes to geoprivacy, however, observations at both the genus and of the one species are considered sensitive information and should be obscured. And this, of course, are considerations only for observations within Sweden. These taxa might have different statuses elsewhere. Obscuring observations reported at the genus level is only a safeguard against anyone reporting what is actually C. calceolus at this level. And only for records within Sweden.

Checking iNat, is when I am getting confused - and concerned. It says Taxon Geoprivacy: Open. This is for both directly the species and inherited from the genus. In the csv I submitted almost three years ago it says Obscured.

Could someone look into this? @kueda

Posted by cynips about 1 year ago

@cynips a curator must have edited the conservation status to open since it was added in 2021. That must have happened before February 2022, which is when we introduced taxon histories to record such changes.

Posted by carrieseltzer about 1 year ago

Taxon geoprivacy needs to be associated with a conservation status listing, even if, as in this case, the conservation status is "Ingen hotstatus angiven", or Least Concern.

About the changes that appear to have been made since 2021, it would seem crucial that at least whoever created a conservation status receives the option of a notification of any subsequent changes to it (one of the measures suggested in my feature request: https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/improve-or-remove-process-for-adding-cascading-conservation-status/39858). There were updates in 2022 by @convallaria1128 who may be able to advise on what was changed.

I went to edit the status to Obscured, precautionarily, but what is odd is that neither of the Swedish statuses seem to specify either open or obscured - that field is just blank. I have left it untouched for now to help diagnose.

Posted by deboas about 1 year ago

Yeah, ok, getting clearer now. I see that my export included "Ingen hotstatus angiven" (=no threat status given) for both the genus and the species. These are national Swedish statuses and shouldn't be applied elsewhere, of course.

Makes sense to get a notification of a subsequent change. And good that there is now a history of changes being recorded.

Could it be that a blank is interpreted as Open, simply?

We're currently updating our list of sensitive species in Sweden, mostly removing some since it is usually better that observations are open so that people can be careful with the place where the observation was made. In any case, I'll wait for how this progresses and the new list before making any changes.

Posted by cynips about 1 year ago

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