Flagger Content Author Content Reason Flag Created Resolved by Resolution
stanspaniel Subspecies Alyssum montanum gmelinii

outdated taxonomy

Nov. 18, 2023 15:14:13 +0000 kelian_gtr

see comments

Comments

should be replaced by Alyssum gmelinii,
see AlyBase https://alysseae.sav.sk/checklists/detail/335 It will help to avoid confusion with A. montanum (different geographic distribution and morphology), see e.g. https://doi.org/10.12705/633.18 and https://doi.org/10.1093/botlinnean/box039

Posted by stanspaniel 6 months ago

iNat does follow POWO base for vascular plants
https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77250099-1
listed as Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii
You can still contact bi@kew.org and ask to swap Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii into Alyssum gmelinii

Posted by kelian_gtr 6 months ago

I have contacted POWO. Alyssum gmelinii is now listed as an accepted name in POWO (with Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii as a synonym). Please swap the names.

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

Hi, thanks for your investigation
swap done :
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/1534013-Alyssum-gmelinii

Posted by kelian_gtr 3 months ago

Thank you. But is it possible to move all the observations listed under Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii to Alyssum gmelinii in one go (and include Alyssum montanum gmelinii as a synonym of Alyssum gmelinii)? Because both taxa are now treated as accepted in iNat.

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

Ok i did forgot it sorry -
I need to do a taxon split because all subspecies are now species.

Can you confirm Alyssum montanum montanum has to be swaped into montanum s.s. ?

https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77228285-1
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/450866-Alyssum-montanum-montanum

Posted by kelian_gtr 3 months ago

Yes, Alyssum montanum montanum should be swaped into Alyssum montanum sensu stricto. Thank you.

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

[personnal notes]
1/ swap Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii into Alyssum gmelinii
2/ swap Alyssum montanum subsp. montanum into Alyssum montanum
3/ split Alyssum montanum into Alyssum gmelinii and Alyssum montanum after atlas.

Posted by kelian_gtr 3 months ago

I am not familiar with the technical procedure, but I think that moving the name Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii into Alyssum gmelinii is sufficient (so that the name is automatically replaced in all observations identified as subsp. gmelinii). As for the split, I propose to split Alyssum montanum in accordance with the current identifications. This means: observations identified as A. montanum subsp. gmelinii will be moved to A. gmelinii, all other observations will remain with Alyssum montanum (the name Alyssum montanum subsp. montanum is no longer necessary). People will continue to make errors in identification, I will continue to revise the identifications according to current knowledge.

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

I've currently
1/ swap Alyssum montanum subsp. gmelinii into Alyssum gmelinii
2/ swap Alyssum montanum subsp. montanum into Alyssum montanum

Split is required because of overlapping areas and many unattented disagreements.

Can you please take a look to atlas
https://www.inaturalist.org/atlases/111542
https://www.inaturalist.org/atlases/111543

Posted by kelian_gtr 3 months ago

Thank you for your assistence. The name Alyssum montanum has been used with different meanings in different parts of Europe, Asia and North Africa. I think that all the necessary changes to Alyssum montanum (some merges and some splits) in iNaturalist (and in POWO) cannot be done in one step, as the patterns of geographical distribution are quite complicated. Some important (but not all) findings: Alyssum montanum sensu stricto occurs only in France, Switzerland and southwestern Germany. A. gmelinii occurs in the rest of Germany, major part of Central Europe and in E Europe, see. The Iberian populations are A. fastigiatum (but not all, see the maps in http://dx.doi.org/10.12705/633.18 and https://doi.org/10.1093/evolut/qpad035 ). In the Balkans there are several different taxa instead of Alyssum montanum, see the maps in https://doi.org/10.1007/s00606-017-1468-x and https://doi.org/10.1007/s00606-017-1470-3. The populations in the Apennine Peninsula and SW Alps include A. diffusum, A. orophilum and A. cognense, see https://doi.org/10.3732/ajb.1100147 and https://doi.org/10.1093/botlinnean/boac041. Therefore, the first step (one of many) that I have proposed in this iNat flag is the complete removal of subsp. gmelinii from A. montanum. Further steps will follow and will be discussed with iNat and POWO on an ongoing basis.

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

Taxa split done according to both atlas ; Alyssum montanum complex created for every overlappin areas and outside areas

Posted by kelian_gtr 3 months ago

I do not think this is a good idea. It would take us back to 20 years ago when everything was called Alyssum montanum (complex, aggregate or simply A. montanum). If you think it is necessary, then I would strongly recommend to use the term "Alyssum montanum–A. repens complex" instead of "Alyssum montanum complex" if that is an option. It is more universal and is used in all of our published articles. Otherwise, I fear that people will refrain from distinguishing between Alyssum montanum s.str. and other genetically distinct taxa (which admittedly are sometimes morphologically very similar, but many times clearly different and geographically limited). I think it is important to establish the use of all these other names in different regions for biodiversity conservation efforts.

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

I have just noticed another problem with the „Alyssum montanum complex“ you created. In its current form, it is artificial and incomplete because it does not include all perennial taxa that belong to the same phylogenetic clade, are morphologically similar and equally related to Alyssum montanum (as related as A. gmelinii). So I suggest two things if you want to keep the complex in iNat: Rename it „Alyssum montanum-A. repens complex“ and include these taxa that also belong to it: Alyssum austrodalmaticum, A. calycocarpum, A. cognense, A. cuneifolium, A. diffusum, A. flexicaule, A. handelii, A. iljinskae, A. loiseleurii, A. moellendorfianum, A. pirinicum, A. repens, A. rhodanense, A. rostratum, A. spruneri, A. trichostachyum, A. wierzbickii, A. wulfenianum. But also taxa that are currently missing in iNat: Alyssum bosniacum https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:277363-1 A. montenegrinum https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77174634-1 A. neglectum https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77144134-1 A. pluscanescens https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77152090-1 A. reiseri https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:277745-1 (but be aware that the spelling reisseri in POWO is wrong – I wrote to POWO to correct it to reiseri) and A. vernale https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:277858-1

Posted by stanspaniel 3 months ago

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