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lesfreck Golden Weeping Willow (Hybrid Salix × sepulcralis)

synonym

Mar. 9, 2024 17:32:46 +0000 t_e_d

Homotypic synonym.

Comments

Posted by lesfreck about 2 months ago
Posted by t_e_d about 2 months ago

i don't actually understand the current taxonomy of this species either, so i can't say much.

Posted by charlie about 2 months ago

My understanding is coming from the FNA (authored by George Argus). In the S. babylonica article, it's explained that S. x sepulcralis = S. alba x S. babylonica,
while S. x pendulina = S. babylonica x S. euxina. You can find more detail in the Flora:
http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=200005760

Posted by azik about 2 months ago

Can you send a feedback to POWO with the relevant literature ?
See : https://powo.science.kew.org/contact

Posted by t_e_d about 2 months ago

Here is an excerpt from I. Belyaeva's article of 2021, where she established the new combination and provided synonyms for it:
Salix × pendulina Wender. nothof. tristis (Gaudin) I.V.Belyaeva, comb. nov.
(= S. babylonica L. × S. × fragilis L. f. vitellina (L.) I.V.Belyaeva)
(urn:lsid:ipni.org:names: 77219497-1).
Basionym: S. alba f. tristis Gaudin, Fl. Helv. 6: 206. 1830.
19
≡ S. alba var. vitellina-tristis Ser., Essai Saules Suisse 83. 1815, syn. nov. ≡ S. alba var. tristis
(Gaudin) Trautv., Fl. Altaic. (C.F. Ledebour) 4: 256. 1833 ≡ S. × sepulcralis Simonkai

However, I don't think S. x sepulcralis should be listed a synonym of this new combination, as this is a hybrid of S. babylonica with S. x fragilis (the latter, in turn, is considered a hybrid of S. alba and S. euxina) rather than with S. euxina itself.

Posted by azik about 2 months ago

The symbol ≡ means that they are homotypic synonyms. Names with the same type can only be synonyms, with one of them as the current name.
You can’t have two different current names with the same type.

Posted by t_e_d about 2 months ago

Although I can't find any date, I think the FNA entry (authored by George Argus) is older than Belyaeva's article of 2021

Posted by lesfreck about 2 months ago

To summarize it, there are these putative hybrids of S. babylonica:
S. babylonica x S. alba (previously called S. x sepulcralis)
S. babylonica x (x fragilis) = Salix × pendulina nothof. tristis (Gaudin) I.V.Belyaeva

if I. Belyaeva synonymized the former with the latter, this means she located the type of S. x sepulcralis and identified it with S. x pendulina tristis. However, she did not discuss the name for the hybrid with S. alba in her article.

Posted by azik about 2 months ago

Here my advice: if S. x sepulcralis is no good anymore, you can swap it to its explicit combination : S. alba x S. babylonica, Also use the explicit combination for S. babylonica x (x S. fragilis). No one would argue that these are two different things and everyone would be clear about what each one is.

Posted by azik about 2 months ago

https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:77219497-1

Salix × pendulina nothof. tristis (Gaudin) I.V.Belyaeva
The hybrid formula is S. babylonica × S. × fragilis f. vitellina

It is not S. alba x S. babylonica.

Posted by t_e_d about 2 months ago

t_e_d
Exactly, that's my point: it's not, and yet the name S. x sepulcralis, which is alba x babylonyca ended up as a synonym of this name

Posted by azik about 2 months ago

No. Salix × sepulcralis is Salix babylonica × Salix × fragilis f. vitellina.
It is a homotypic synonym of Salix × pendulina nothof. tristis. They have the same type. They are the exact same hybrid. They have the exact same hybrid formula.

Posted by t_e_d about 2 months ago

The nomenclature of weeping willows is completely wrong at POWO as well as here at iNaturalist. We are now going to publish our taxonomic survey based on genome-wide sequencing data soon. I do not want to mention our results prior its publication, but Salix x sepulcralis is later synonym and should not be used any longer (I have checked the type specimen collected by Lajos Simonkai in Budapest). The taxonomic concept of I. Belyaeva (which is adopted by the POWO) is based on erroneous hypothesis (see e.g. here: https://doi.org/10.1002/tax.12685 or here: https://doi.org/10.3390/plants13050639). However, this concept of POWO (which lacks any support in DNA data) is unfortunately adopted on webpages world-wide (in contrary to scientific publications). I hope that POWO (and iNaturalist) will accept concepts supported by DNA data sometimes in future :).

Posted by radimjv about 2 months ago

I look forward to seeing more of your genetic analyses. A revision of the group based on more genetic analyses would obviously help.

Posted by lesfreck about 2 months ago

I can't attest to DNA and all but in the UK the two are seen as distinct hybrids with different parents as azik describes. BSBI's Atlas lists them as:

Salix x sepulcralis = Salix babylonica x alba - https://plantatlas2020.org/atlas/2cd4p9h.pc2
Salix x pendulina = Salix babylonica x alba x euxina - https://plantatlas2020.org/atlas/2cd4p9h.95yzsy

Stace's New Flora makes the same distinction - however, my copy is an older copy that has Salix x sepulcralis as the above and then Salix x pendulina listed as S. babylonica x fragilis - but given that "S. fragilis" got split into S. alba x euxina around then, I'd bet the new one lists it as the hybrid of three. Not that I have it to check!

Posted by jamie-aa about 2 months ago

Again : they are the same hybrid.
Salix × sepulcralis is a homotypic synonym of Salix × pendulina nothof. tristis. They have the same type. They are the exact same hybrid. They have the exact same hybrid formula, whatever this exact hybrid formula is.
(and it is here Salix × pendulina nothof. tristis, not Salix × pendulina)

Posted by t_e_d about 2 months ago

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