Created Object Flagger Reason Resolved by Resolve Comment
Wed, 08 Mar 2017 22:47:54 +0000 Rufous, Allen's, and Allied Hummingbirds (Genus Selasphorus) fg2hummingbirds

"Rufous/Allen's" is a taxonomically valid and useful subcategory of this genus and should be restored PERMANENTLY.

loarie

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@loarie -- Scott, didn't you have a note under "Rufous/Allen's" indicating that the classification should be maintained?

Posted by d_kluza over 2 years ago (Flag)
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doesn't ring a bell - re: @fg2hummingbirds's flag, are you saying you want a subgenus below genus Selasphorus with children Rufous and Allens? Do you have a source to show that this is a taxonomically valid grouping?

Posted by loarie over 2 years ago (Flag)
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Not a subgenus -- there was a taxon for "Rufous/Allen's Hummingbird" under Selasphorus. Might have been set up as Selasphorus sp.. In the Names for that taxon, there was a note (under the "Unknown" lexicon) about keeping that classification unit. Could have sworn I saw your name against it.

Posted by d_kluza over 2 years ago (Flag)
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I'm not sure what there was, but taxa should be non-overlapping other than through the taxonomic hierarchy. So a hypothetical "Rufous/Allen's Hummingbird" taxon should not be at the same rank as species within Selasphorus or the genus Selasphorus. The only place it could be without messing up the tree would be at the subgeneric level - but even then it would need a source to prove its a natural group (e.g. why not Rufous and broad-tailed??)

Posted by loarie over 2 years ago (Flag)
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Rufous and Allen's are traditionally treated as sibling species (e.g., http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0004119&type=printable). Multilocus phylogenetic analysis by McGuire et al. (2014) suggests that Allen's and Calliope are closer, having both recently split from a common ancestor with Rufous. That unexpected result has no impact on the accuracy and granularity of iNaturalist data, though, because it's not particularly difficult, with study and practice, to distinguish Calliope (or Broad-tailed) from Allen's or Rufous. The difficulty lies in distinguishing between Rufous and Allen's in their extremely broad zone of non-breeding sympatry: https://fieldguidetohummingbirds.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/rufous-vs-allens/

As North American birders and field ornithologists have become more aware of this challenge, the use of "Rufous/Allen's" has become more widespread. The Audubon Christmas Bird Count has used it for ~50 years, and eBird has used it since its inception. I requested its addition to iNaturalist so that a) iNaturalist data would be more consistent and comparable with the CBC and eBird data sets and b) I wouldn't have to qualify every Rufous/Allen's identification with "Either Rufous or Allen's, definitely not Broad-tailed or Calliope."

Posted by fg2hummingbirds over 2 years ago (Flag)
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might be better to discuss this in the google group as part of a broader discussion about species complexes

Posted by loarie 9 months ago (Flag)

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