Flag for Taxon: royal hala pepe (Pleomele halapepe)

« Back to flags

Flag for Taxon: royal hala pepe (Pleomele halapepe)

Flagger	Content Author	Content	Reason	Flag Created	Resolved by	Resolution
colinmorita	loarie	royal hala pepe (Pleomele halapepe)	ejliaw has suggested that the genus name has changed from Pleomele to Chrysodracon. The current genus name affects my two observations, one of which now appears to have disagreement over genus, when I believe the only "conflict" is on the genus name.	Apr. 21, 2018 17:19:06 +0000	loarie	see comments

Comments

Looks like Plants of the World Online treats them as Dracaena:
http://plantsoftheworldonline.org/?q=Pleomele

Posted by bouteloua over 5 years ago

I have this set up as a deviation from POWO
https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_framework_relationships/365786
if someone could make sure that the list of Pleomele species and their POWO Dracaena analogues are all accounted for in that deviation that would be great

Posted by loarie about 4 years ago

As I mentioned this deviaiton from Dracaena sensu POWO maintains Pleomele and Sansiveria as distinct: https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/124826/taxonomy_details

Last night I made some taxon changes to get rid of duplication (places where we had a species represented twice both as Pleomele and as Dracaena). I opted to curate in the direction of the deviation from POWO.

I guess you could argue that I should have left the duplicates until folks decided whether we are going to maintain the deviation or get in line with POWO, but none of the taxa had too many observations involved so I thought it would't be particularly painful to reverse course, and the duplications really are annoying.

Anyway @theo_damen sent me a message lobbying for following POWO in lumping Pleomele with Dracaena. I'm fine either way. Lets have the discussion here though. Should we (a) maintain the Pleomele part of the deviation or (b) get in line with POWO (lump Pleomele into Dracaena). Here's a flag to discuss the Sansiveria part of the same deviation https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/458958

Posted by loarie about 4 years ago

The type species for Pleomele is Pleomele fragrans. So that would also mean that Dracaena fragrans should be Pleomele fragrans :) In: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263338444_Phylogenetic_Relationships_among_Dracaenoid_Genera_Asparagaceae_Nolinoideae_Inferred_from_Chloroplast_DNA_Loci , Pleomele is all over the place in Dracaena s.l. So Pleomele should be lumped into Dracaena.
The use of Chrysodracon for the hawaian clade is a different discussion. Chrysodracon is morphological and phylogenetic different from Dracaena so to accept that as a genus is fine by me.
For me taxonomy is more then phylogenetic relations, so that's why I don't accept Sansevieria to be lumped into Dracaena. Sansevieria is morphological different and phylogenetic grouped together. No it is not monophyletic, but there is no such thing as a rule that a genus should be monophyletic. Nature doesn't work that way...

Posted by theo_damen about 4 years ago

so you're proposing we sink Pleomele into Dracaena but keep Sansevieria as distinct?

Posted by loarie about 4 years ago

Yep, that would be my proposition.

Posted by theo_damen about 4 years ago

Personally I would prefer to have it all in Dracaena, but Sansevieria is widely used and monophyletic (although nested in Dracaena) and the hawaiian clade is monophyletic and sister to the others. So to keep these groups apart would be a good solution. The paper by Lu and Morden that Theo linked above shows well, that all non-hawaiian "Pleomele" like the African spp. can not be kept apart from Dracaena and therefore I would suggest to swap them back into Dracaena. Since that includes the type species of Pleomele, it also implies that the Hawaiians would have to be named Chrysodracon if kept apart.

African Plant Database treats all the Pleomele names as synonyms (http://www.ville-ge.ch/musinfo/bd/cjb/africa/resultat.php?efNom=pleomele&efFamille=&projet%5B%5D=FSA&projet%5B%5D=FTA&projet%5B%5D=FNA&projet%5B%5D=BDM&langue=an&pbRecherche=Search; some, like P. arborea are not even mentioned) and I have not seen Pleomele used in any African flora I have used.

Posted by marcoschmidtffm over 2 years ago

@marcoschmidtffm I agree with you.

Posted by theo_damen over 2 years ago

@loarie are there any good points in favor of the present state? Otherwise I think we should proceed as I suggested last year.

Posted by marcoschmidtffm about 2 years ago