Flag for Taxon: Northern Green Frog (Subspecies Lithobates clamitans melanota)
| Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| bouteloua | Northern Green Frog (Subspecies Lithobates clamitans melanota) |
merge to species? |
Jun. 7, 2019 15:02:09 +0000 | bouteloua |
committed taxon change |
Comments
Yes, I'm not sure where the iNat amphibian taxonomy comes from, but SSAR no longer recognizes subspecies of Lithobates clamitans nor does the most recent Peterson field Guide (Conant, Collins, and Powell). I think L. clamitans subspecies should be collapsed to species.
Peer-reviewed source here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18625326
Looks as if all subspecies of Lithobates claimtans were rejected based on that paper.
@bobbyfingers I think you'd be interested in this
In full agreement with @cthawley . I've read the paper by Zamudio, et al., and while it's an insanely boring "snoozer", it points out something I've suspected since I was a teenager - that the "subspecies" of the Green Frog L. c. "clamitans" and "melanota" are very poorly differentiated (like as in "not at all", lol - nothing that wouldn't be covered by simple individual variation) and are unworthy of subspecific recognition. It would be real nice to have these taxa dumped already - then maybe we could move on to the dozens of others in desperate need of correction here. The "Western" Cottonmouth immediately comes to mind - the subspecies "leucostoma" got canned going on 5 years ago already, and is no longer supported by the Reptile Database OR the SSAR, and if I even gently venture that fact to certain people on this platform, they go completely wacko, saying stuff like "Screw you, bobbyfingers - I'm gonna call this a WESTERN Cottomouth from Texas until iNat removes "leucostoma" as an ID option, and don't you dare tell me any different!" - then, they "block" me so I can't attempt any other corrections on their observations. Just another example of the aggravation that could be avoided by something as simple as "iNat staff" getting on the stick with some simple updated taxon changes (I'm not talking 'bout you, Cassi! haha : ).
re: Lithobates clamitans melanota, while there is a Taxon Framework for Class Amphibia , it's downstream coverage is only to rank species. This means there's currently no global reference for amphibian subspecies and at the same time nothing to prevent any curator from swapping this taxon (unless there's a bug I'm unaware of).
re: Agkistrodon piscivorus leucostoma, the Taxon Framework on Class Reptilia does cover subspeices. We're currently deviating from reptile database until someone can help with the split. As I explained here the next steps would be to:
1) create draft output taxa
2) atlases for the output taxa
3) a draft taxon change(s)
4) and ideally new Taxon Ranges
Any curator can do all 4 of these steps, so if you want this change to happen and are a curator please go ahead. If you're not a curator see if you can convince a curator to take this work on or consider becoming one yourself.
@loarie Explain to me why dumping "leucostoma" is such a difficult, big whoop-dee-doo, Scott. Is it because there's a few people here that insist on identifying to "Western" Cottonmouth and repeatedly state "I'm gonna call this A. p. "leucostoma" until iNaturalist removes it as an identification option, bobbyfingers - SO THERE!" and you're afraid to ruffle the feathers of a relatively small backward-thinking contingent? Was it the same sort of big deal to accomplish the dumping of other "popular" subspecies in the face of new and supposedly more "accurate" taxonomic research - like getting rid of the "Yellow" Ratsnake, Pantherophis alleghaniensis "quadrivittata", among others? I know about a month after I joined up on iNaturalist, I posted several nice observations of the former Outer Banks Kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula "sticticeps". Within a couple of weeks, you had it reduced to an "inactive taxon" as simply L. getula all by yourself, without any of the monkeydance you are suggesting is necessary to inactivate Agkistrodon p. "leucostoma" S'up with that? Make me a "curator", and I'll fix so much of this crap it'll make your head spin - but I'm sure not gonna "hold my breath" on that. @catenatus @pantherophis
@bouteloua Way to go on the L. clamitans fix, Cassi - thanks. Are ya gonna dare tackle the dreaded "Western" Cottonmouth next? The very lame, former "subspecies" that fills the hearts of iNat staffers with fear! lol! : )
let's focus future discussion on the relevant flag https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/251295
from @mws: