Flagger Content Author Content Reason Flag Created Resolved by Resolution
reuvenm Bald-faced Hornet (Dolichovespula maculata)

please stop changing the name to aerial yellowjacket instead of hornet

Aug. 19, 2019 18:29:14 +0000 bouteloua

updated to most common vernacular name

Comments

There are 135 Google results for "bald-faced aerial yellowjacket" (the first two of which are for this page in iNaturalist!) , compared to over 70000 for "bald-faced hornet". It doesn't even seem to be name that is really in use for this species, the only results seem to be directly orginated from inaturalist or from a couple spots on wikipedia. And the actual species page on Wikipedia does not include it despite listing 7 different English name.

Common names are not meant to be taxonomically accurate.

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

There are many, many common names for this species, and the name is in use well outside of iNaturalist (variations include bald-faced aerial yellowjacket, bald-faced yellowjacket, bald-faced yellow jacket, etc.). Very frankly, insect common names, particularly those of wasps, generally are required to be taxonomically accurate, unlike other groups. Numerous specialists with this group adamantly reject any application of "hornet" to this species as these particular names actually are taxonomically defined (and the misapplied and prominent common name, which really is tied to early identification issues, has resulted in a ton of misinformation). I'll also loop in @caseyborowskijr, but it's worth noting that these common names had been specifically curated to that point by several vespid specialists, in light of all in-use common names and with a year of stability, and that entering "bald-faced hornet" will still arrive at the species. Changes really should be in light of previous discussions and shouldn't ignore a fairly large discussion among experts on this family.

Posted by jonathan142 over 4 years ago

@jonathan142 Thanks. Can you point me to any of those discussions? I looked around for a while before making the flag but could not find any.

"and the name is in use well outside of iNaturalist (variations include bald-faced aerial yellowjacket, bald-faced yellowjacket, bald-faced yellow jacket, etc.)."

I'm not convinced that this is true? Looking at Google:

"Bald-faced Yellowjacket" (402 results)
On first page, 4 results are presenting it as an alternate name to what is commonly called Bald-faced Hornet, 2 are links to this taxon on iNat, 2 are random Flickr/Bugguide users calling it that, 1 is someone who has used it on an actual website

"Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket" (138 results)
On first page, 3 results are to the taxon on iNaturalist, 3 are random people calling it that, the other 3 are copies of the same Wikipedia page for the genus. Looking at the page history, I see someone has added this common name randomly to the page in an edit with no other changes

"Bald-faced Yellow Jacket" (145 results)
On first page, one is a spurious result using the bald-faced and yellow jacket in a list with a semi-colon between them, 5 are where it is listed as an alternative name for what is commonly called bald-faced hornet, 3 are random people using the name

Compared to "Bald-faced Hornet" (80 000 results)
First page includes 8 links to websites providing information about the species.

Here are some sources that use Bald-faced Hornet:
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald-faced_hornet)
BugGuide (https://bugguide.net/node/view/2890)
Encyclopedia of Life (https://eol.org/pages/239818/names)
I can find no reference to the syrphid mimic ever having been called anything other than "Bald-faced Hornet Fly"
Marshall 2006 "Insects: Their Natural History and Diversity"
I could go on...

"Very frankly, insect common names, particularly those of wasps, generally are required to be taxonomically accurate, unlike other groups."

Says who? Why do they get to decide? I think Bald-faced Hornet is a much more evocative and aesthetically pleasing name, and it's certainly the one that I will use to communicate to other people what I'm talking about. If I say "Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket" to my friends while out hiking, they will have no clue what I'm talking about. Certainly won't think I'm talking about a species that isn't even yellow and does not superficially appear particularly similar to other yellowjackets.

I feel like you are kind of missing the point of common names. Vespid specialists shouldn't be the one deciding common names, because they aren't using the common names anyways. The people deciding common names are the hundreds of thousands of people out in the world referring to the organisms around them. And as far as I can tell, a small proportion of people use "Blackjacket", and otherwise use of anything other than "Bald-faced Hornet" is a rounding error.

Like... if it was somewhat ambiguous, I could see going for the name that is more taxonomically accurate over one that is a little more common. But that's not what is happening here. Basically nobody is ever typing "Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket" into the search bar to find this species. It feels like this name has been set to default not based on any consideration of how people actually use iNat and common names, but rather as a way to try and force opinions on everyone else. And I think that is a really inappropriate use of the common name default. It's perfectly reasonable to think that another common name is better, and to advocate for its use. I don't think its reasonable to impose those preferences on everyone else.

Here are a couple discussions around common names on iNat. I think the general consensus is that we should be using names that are in use.

https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/reliable-sources-for-common-names-on-inaturalist/5579/28
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/inaturalist/XGx3wTc1gOk/-2uSBfHcBAAJ

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

@jonathan142 I think this is a more general question worthy of broader input. I've made a post here on the forum: https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/default-common-names-taxonomy-and-common-use/5952, and encourage you to contribute.

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

I vote
Bald-faced Hornet:
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald-faced_hornet)
BugGuide (https://bugguide.net/node/view/2890)
Encyclopedia of Life (https://eol.org/pages/239818/names)

It is not possible that the sites above also change their names or add the other less common name ?

Posted by ahospers over 4 years ago

I don't know who changed it to "hornet" again, but can we not have an "edit war" and just leave it alone while this is being discussed?

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

The broader discussion (this particular among biologists and advocacy groups and as a commonly cited grievance in the literature) is the issue that many species of aerial-nesting yellowjacket are often called "hornets" by the public due to misidentification. We don't list "common yellow hornet" for D. arenaria, either here or on BugGuide, despite its frequent use by the public. The same applies throughout the Dolichovespula genus, where the application of "aerial yellowjacket" to the other species in the US as opposed to "hornet" was in large part due to push by specialists (entomologists, vespid specialists, science communications / advocacy, etc.) for the entire genus, including D. maculata. Either way this species is looked at, it's a bit of an atypical case. While it may not be used as much where you are, claiming that it's not in use at all on the continent is categorically false (also, regrettably, we don't have any way to quantify how many users type in which name). Discussions on-site were largely across observations (to better involve both identifiers and observers), and the "yellowjacket" name had been accepted and stable for a year with broad acceptance as the default (with rather close watch of observations for any concerns or complaints, which had been none). But recent changes this month were done without involving any curators focusing on hymenoptera, without involving any identifiers, and without involving any frequent observers.

Aside: Insect common names, and particular wasp common names, are often fraught with issues, and there are even several committees that regulate or attempt to regulate names (which actually require consultation of specialists and taxonomic accuracy). It's not all that infrequent that there are issues at the crossroads between specialists and the public in ways that really don't happen with other taxonomic groups. There's a similar issue with a species of paper wasp that, in the south, is almost exclusively misidentified as a yellowjacket and very rarely by its actual common names; and with crane flies that are rather inappropriately called either "skeeter eaters" or "mayflies" due to mistaken identities. There are rather lengthy lists of commonly used names that are intentionally de-emphasized or noted as inappropriate by entomologists (see also emphasis of lady beetle and ladybird beetle in species names over very prominent use of ladybug, which outnumbers them in usage by a more significant margin of over 100 million Google hits).

While discussion is ongoing, this probably should be retained at the most recent stable name. One potential compromise, albeit rather verbose, would be a default entry of Bald-faced "Hornet" / Aerial Yellowjacket. Let's also make sure we get Casey's thoughts as to application of these names as he frankly has the most familiarity with relevant vespine species among iNat users and curators.

Posted by jonathan142 over 4 years ago

Regarding common names in social wasps, there is acceptance among wasp researchers that only wasps in the genera Vespa and Provespa are ‘hornets’, while wasps in Vespula and Dolichovespula are ’yellowjackets’. I’m a firm believer in accurate common names. As a wasp researcher for over forty years, I’m sick and tired of having to explain to people I meet that the bald-faced ‘hornet’ isn’t a hornet at all, but a true yellowjacket. With this wonderful format of iNaturalist, we have the opportunity to introduce to both experienced and novice naturalists a much more accurate name for this amazing species.

Case in point where a common name was changed to a more accurate and meaningful one. Bob Jacobson is the author of the species Vespula flavopilosa. This yellowjacket did not have a common name until Roger Akre, in Akre et al. (1981) proposed ‘Hybrid Yellowjacket’ for this species, because at the time V. flavopilosa was thought to be a hybrid species originally ‘created’ by interbreeding between V. maculifrons and V. vulgaris. Mr. Jacobson hated this name, and created the new common name of Downy Yellowjacket for Vespula flavopilosa. Downy Yellowjacket ( in reference to the dense yellow pilosity on the sides of the thorax and gaster) was originally proposed on Bugguide.net, and is the widely accepted common name for this species.

If agreement cannot be reached for Dolichovespula maculata, perhaps NO common name should be used.

Posted by caseyborowskijr over 4 years ago

We might also be able to involve some of the BugGuide editors in discussion as well for this species, especially as I know their listing of common names is very behind public usage anyway. Some contribute here, but others could be reached via e-mail. It would also give some broader perspectives as to how to bridge this crossroads when researchers and the public seem to be at odds as BG also have to consider similar issues.

As an aside, if they were to decide to emphasize "* Aerial Yellowjacket", would that change opinions about what we do here?

Posted by jonathan142 over 4 years ago

Thanks for the replies,

A few points:

"Hornet" has two different definitions. It can be used to mean the same thing as "true hornet", i.e. a single monophyletic group. But the colloquial definition instead refers to various species of large wasps, it is not a taxonomic concept. You can certainly advocate that they should use a different definition, but people are absolutely not wrong to be calling it a hornet, except maybe in some contexts where a more rigorous scientific definition is expected. "Hornet" is this sense is a polyphyletic group no different than "Robin", "Sparrow", "Mouse", "Toad", "Daisy", or "Cricket". But even calling these polyphyletic isn't really right, these aren't inherently taxonomic definitions at all.
To be clear, I have zero problem with anyone advocating that these names should be used in a more rigiorous taxonomic sense, or with anyone personally using whatever name they want. I do have a problem with the assertion that other people are wrong, and with trying to impose names on other people.
Vespid specialists don't get to decide what "hornet" means any more than carpenters get to decide what "chair" means or publishers get to decide what "book" means. The definitions used among specialists can certainly be influential on others, but these are English words that don't have any external meaning beyond how people actually use them.

I don't really understand how you can say that these other names are in common use. Maybe among the small group of specialists. But this is a species well-known to a huge proportion of the amateur naturalists in North America, and to lots of people that wouldn't even consider themselves naturalists. If they were using these other names, they would be showing up online, in publications, and so on. But those three names together only have 9 photos on Flickr, compared to 1400 for Bald-faced Hornet. As far as I can tell this link is the only place on BugGuide where anyone ever uses any of the common names you listed to refer to this species: https://bugguide.net/node/view/1632691/bgimage. And all the other things I listed above. I don't deny that some people are using it, but it's such a tiny minority as to be irrelevant. I'm not even sure these names are actually being used among most entomologists. Here's four journal articles from the last few years that use "bald-faced hornet":
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/anie.201804666
https://scholar.valpo.edu/tgle/vol35/iss1/13/
http://summit.sfu.ca/item/15595
https://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publication/?seqNo115=336285
There are zero hits for any of the other names in Google Scholar.

This species is I think rather different in this respect than most other wasps. The example of "Hybrid Yellowjacket" above is a good one. In general, for a species like that most people interested in the species are going to be intermediate to expert, and keenly interested. They aren't going to be confused by name changes. And it's a new name that hasn't had time to crystallize. It is actually reasonable to expect that a small group of keenly interested people with good reasoning can actually change what name people use, and it sounds like that is what happened.
Bald-faced Hornet is a different case. This is a species, with that common name, published in any insect field guide and lots of other books, listed in various databases, tons of information out there related to pest control and similar, in the scientific literature, etc.. I don't think it's possible that this name will actually change. It would be like ornithologists trying to change the name of Yellow Warbler, or botanists trying to change Silver Maple. It ain't gonna happen, no matter how good your arguments are. The American Birding Association changed the name of Oldsquaw to Long-tailed Duck many years ago (for good reason), but that's still what I think most hunters call it. This is despite that other name already being in wide use in Europe, and that the ABA has a lot more "official legitimacy" and reach than vespid specialists.

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

Ultimately I think using a name like this is harmful to iNaturalist and its users. Anyone coming from an outside place to find information about the species is going to be search for "Bald-faced Hornet". They aren't going to find iNat in a Google search with that phrase. Meanwhile, if someone gets their wasp identified on iNat as a "Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket", they may go looking for more info on Google. They are not going to find nearly as much useful information with that search phrase. I don't think it means much that you haven't noticed any problems. Most more active iNat users know enough to figure out what is going on regardless of what name is used. It's the people with only a few observations that don't know enough to comment or don't really know how to use the website that are more of a concern. The name "Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket" simply does not connect them to the numerous other sources of information out there which more or less unanimously use hornet.

So far there is unanimous agreement on the forum thread I linked above that common names used on iNat should be based on common usage.

"and there are even several committees that regulate or attempt to regulate names". Do you have any examples? The only thing I could quickly find online was https://www.entsoc.org/common-names, which uses Bald-faced Hornet.

I definitely get the impulse that common names should be taxonomically accurate, although I am way less of an advocate for this than I would have once been. And if the name starts to catch on the point where new books are using it, and scientific papers are using it, and random Flickr users are using it at some appreciable fraction of the existing name, I think it would be reasonable to start using that name here. But I really don't think it is appropriate to be using iNaturalist to try and impose the names you prefer on other people. I changed the name shortly after I saw it, knowing that this species has another long-established and widely-used common name, and after looking around to see that the new name appears to be unused except by a tiny group and the occasional other person who has copied in from one of their sources. Nothing I've seen has convinced me I was wrong. If Bugguide editors and contributors and publishing scientists haven't been convinced that they should be using this new name, why should we?

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

@jonathan142 Cross-posted with your last post.

If other sources such as Bugguide and others were using the new name, I would feel better about it to some degree. I would still say that we should default to common usage at least until the new name is within an order of magnitude of usage compared to the existing name. I'm a lot more interested in "organic" usage (e.g. name use in loosely related articles, personal blogs, books aimed at beginners). The idea that any single person or small group of people should get to decide what common name is "right" is what I really don't like. That just not how human language works - and that's why scientific nomenclature was invented. I would still advocate against the changes, and indeed against almost any common name changes whatsoever when an existing name is well established, beyond (sometimes) those aiming to bring global consistency to a species that has different names in different areas.

Frankly, "Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket" is a terrible common name. It has way too many syllables, is overly technical and I think is rather misleading. My first thought upon hearing about an animal called "aerial", is that it is something like a bat, swallow or dragonfly that spends long periods high in open air foraging. Which is not the case here. "Bald-faced Yellowjacket" would be much better. Although "Bald-faced Hornet" is still a much more evocative name IMO.

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

More thoughts:

Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket.
Bald-faced is a reference to the white coloration, rather than yellow, of Dolichovespula maculata. Aerial is a reference to the fact that this species, like others in genus Dolichovespula, suspend their nests from tree and bush limbs or are attached in exposed situations on human structures, as opposed to subterranean. Yellowjacket is what wasps in genera Vespula and Dolichovespula are commonly called, and is the accepted common name by the ESA.

Upon checking other Dolichovespula species reveals that their common names also utilize ‘Aerial’. This includes other white species such as Dolichovespula arctica and D. albida.

The term ‘hornet ‘ is an English word specifically coined to separate Vespa crabro from other English vespine wasps. Since its inception centuries ago, in more recent decades it has been designated to pertain to all members of genus Vespa and Provespa, not Dolichovespula.

I coined the name Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket to provide a more accurate name. This has occurred repeatedly in ornithology. The coppery-tailed trogon is now called the elegant trogon. The bird previously called a sparrowhawk in now the American Kestrel. The cardinal in now the Northern Cardinal, as the mockingbird is also Northern Mockingbird. Ornithologists changed and made these and other common names more relevant and meaningful to the organism. Unfortunately, social wasp researchers and enthusiasts are a small group. We don’t have the power of the ABA. Accordingly, are we to be told by others what to call our taxa? No, I believe we should be dictating what they’re named.

I changed the common name of Dolichovespula maculata on iNat from Hornet to Aerial Yellowjacket only about a year ago, and met with no resistance from other wasp/Hymenoptera experts or other iNat users until now. Accordingly, how can you get many hits when this term is googled?

People are resistant to change. They go with what they know, what’s familiar. Only a young mind, or someone open to change or for more accurate common names, will be accepting of the proposed name change
for D. maculata. It’s only with repeated usage that new terminology is accepted. Killing the name now prevents its further ‘growth’ and acceptance.

An obvious compromise is to utilize ‘Bald-faced Hornet/ Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket’ or some combination thereof.

Posted by caseyborowskijr over 4 years ago

"and is the accepted common name by the ESA."

Looking at the ESA common name database (https://www.entsoc.org/common-names?title=&field_scientific_name_value=&tid=&tid_1=&tid_2=Dolichovespula&tid_3=&tid_4=), I don't see where they provide common names for genera. They provide common names for two Dolichovespula species: this one is Bald-faced Hornet, and D. arenaria is Aerial Yellowjacket. What am I missing? The ESA website provides a formal process for changing common names. Have you considered submitting the name there? I will note that it probably does not meet some of the guidelines they indicate.

I agree with most of what you say in the first paragraph - I never indicated that aerial yellowjacket was an inaccurate name. Something can be both accurate and misleading. I would submit that, to the layperson, the word "hornet" brings to mind a large, robust wasp (accurate), whereas "aerial yellowjacket" brings to mind a yellow wasp that lives in the air (inaccurate).

"Upon checking other Dolichovespula species reveals that their common names also utilize ‘Aerial’. This includes other white species such as Dolichovespula arctica and D. albida."

Looking online, it appears to me that arctica is more commonly just called "Parasitic Yellowjacket", and albida "Arctic Yellowjacket". But they are usually just referred to by the latin name, which is exactly the point. These species are largely only discussed by specialists - meaning that specialists have the ability to determine common names.

"Accordingly, are we to be told by others what to call our taxa? No, I believe we should be dictating what they’re named."

This statement, specifically the "our taxa", is exactly where my problem is! These are not your taxa, and you have no right to be dictating anything. These are wild animals, and we humans, in trying to communicate with each other, have developed words for the animals we see. Those people are not wrong, and the names do not belong to you. They belong to every single person talking about these insects. In reality for some species, like D. arctica, this really is largely limited to a group of mostly specialists, and in those cases there is some sense in which you do own the names. But that is simply not the case for D. maculata. Similarly, there is some weak sense in which the ABA (via the consent of the birding community) own names like "Clapper Rail", "Nashville Warbler", or "Elegant Trogon". If there was a good reason, they could change these names, and the changes would stick. But the ABA and the birding community do not get a say in the names "Blue Jay", "Bald Eagle" or "Canada Goose". These names are used too broadly in too many contexts. It would neither be appropriate nor possible for the ABA to change the name of Bald Eagle.

To be very clear, I am not claiming that I, or anybody else, should get to tell you what to call D. maculata. You can call it what you want. I am claiming that, in cases where many people have to agree (like default names on iNat), we need to have a reasonably objective guideline as to what name should be used. I think that guideline should be based on common usage, and given the forum thread, that position seems to be overwhelmingly popular among the curator community and at least one of the iNat admins.

"Killing the name now prevents its further ‘growth’ and acceptance."

This is true, although I don't believe that "Bald-faced Aerial Yellowjacket" would ever gain acceptance just because it so awkward. In any case though, I, personally, don't want it to gain acceptance! I think the existing name is superior in almost every way, and regardless, the long period where this species would have two names will cause way way more problems than calling one species of Dolichovespula a hornet. You obviously disagree with me there, and that's not the point. The point is that everyone has opinions about these things, and we need some kind of overall standard to resolve disagreement.

This really doesn't seem like even an edge case to me. We have one name that is officially accepted by common name commitees of both the Entomological Society of America & Canada, is the only name used by Bugguide editors and users, is used overwhelmingly more often on Flickr, is used on Wikipedia and EoL, is the only name used in the scientific literature, is in broad use in pest control and so on. We have another name that is used by some portion of vespid specialists, and a few random people that have also picked it up. If you want to change people's minds, the place to start is by using the name personally in books and publications and recommending others do the same, and in trying the route of proposing changes to the committees. The place to start is not to just impose your views on everyone else.

Posted by reuvenm over 4 years ago

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