Flag for Taxon: Baby Sage (Variety Salvia microphylla microphylla)
| Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| sbrobeson | Baby Sage (Variety Salvia microphylla microphylla) |
it is the only listed infraspecific |
Feb. 21, 2024 16:40:58 +0000 | sbrobeson |
swapped |
Comments
I'll defer to you and @xanergo on this one. Salvia microphylla is not a taxon I'm familiar with beyond my IDing of observations of cultivated individuals in the US and Canada. I wonder if there is some confusion with recent (I'm thinking erroneous and informal) classification of a cultivated variety called 'Hot Lips' that I've read about it in peoples' observations.
no need to defer to me, I haven't studied Salvia and I am not familiar with this particular species. 😅
this seems to be an unusual case (clerically, on iNaturalist) because it isn't the often forgotten nominotypic "leftovers" of some other variety being split from the parent species. it seems to have been added alone.
Looks like an artifact of Lamiaceae taxonomists Epling and Bentham using different naming systems (as is often the case with mints). I'm not immediately finding the primary literature, but maybe Jesús has easy access to that information.
Hi, I do not recognize any varieties under S. microphylla. There are several more that have been in use, such as S. microphylla wislizeni y S. microphylla neurepia, but all have been treated as synonyms under the species. It is possible that in the future several infraespecific taxa might be recognized in S. microphylla based on genetic data, but the names proposed until now are poorly consistent and I do not recommend the use. I do not know, I might have confirm here in iNaturalist some observations as S. microphylla var. microphylla, but that's more for laziness than for acceptance on the infraespecif.
hi Jesús, gracias por explicar la situación, no me sorprende que las infra-especies segregadas son dudosas. recomendarías que debamos combinarla esta variedad nominotípica?
Sí, recomendaría dejar de momento solo a Salvia microphylla y no a sus infraespecíficos... al menos hasta que no haya un respaldo genético que sustente a los infraespecíficos, porque morfológicamente no es claro dónde hacer el corte para reconocerlos, y si algunas variantes morfológicas son convergencias ante presiones ambientales semejantes pero que correspondan a posibles linajes diferentes dentro de la especie. No es claro.
Y supongo que para el caso de "hot-lips" basta con identificarla como S. microphylla y dejar en comentarios una nota de que se trata de esta selección hortícola.
entiendo, estoy de acuerdo ante esta explicación. me parece ser mucho como varios otros taxones con variación que han sido partida en infraespecificos -- probable o no -- que no han recibido subsecuentemente atención de sistemáticos, si eso hasta sería justificado.
swap (draft): https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/139966
quizá algunas observaciones de "Hot Lips" podrían ser (asignadas a) Salvia × jamensis...? no estoy segure de qué proveniencia son los individuos con corolas de borde blanco.
Salvia x jamensis is a hybrid between S. greggii and S. microphylla, but the cultivar "hot-lips" seems to be only a morphological variant of S. microphylla. The mother plants of commercial "hot-lips" were gathered in San Miguel de Allende, in the center of the country, were S. microphylla is abundant, but not S. greggii. Besides S. x jamensis comes from northeastern Mexico, from areas between Coahuila and Nuevo León, near the cities of Saltillo and Monterrey. So, I do not know who started saying that "hot-lips" was part of the hybrid swarm between those to species... but that's not probable, and for sure, it has not been tested by genetic or experimental studies. Also, the morphology of "hot-lips" matches perfectly morphological variation in S. microphylla. I have never seen at the field what could be considered as wild populations of S. microphylla "hot-lips", but though populations with red corollas are prevalent, white is not so rare, and there's also an arrow of different colors including pink, magenta and even purple or violet. You can pick some of the history of "hot-lips" in these links: https://hardy-plant.org.uk/yokes-salvia-blog-chapter-4/, https://calhortsociety.org/2018/07/15/the-truth-about-salvia-hot-lips/
eso hace sentido... entonces deberían las plantas con corolas parcialmente blancas estar re-identificadas como S. microphylla propiamente dicho?
(por cierto, si es claro que retener S. microphylla var. microphylla no tiene mérito, no dudes en cometer el cambio de taxón si querrías.)
no contrasting varieties are listed as accepted in POWO.
@alex_abair @xanergo