Flag for Taxon: Genus Thalpius
| Flagger | Content Author | Content | Reason | Flag Created | Resolved by | Resolution |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| thebeachcomber | Genus Thalpius |
add species? |
Aug. 9, 2023 00:36:10 +0000 | thebeachcomber |
see comments |
Comments
I have no expertise in this area whatsoever, so tagging the top IDers
@caterpillarofsociety
@dkavanaugh
@carabid_47
Not that I am aware of, it should be listed as the synonym Pseudaptinus pygmaeus Dejean
Cheers
thanks, that's what I suspected. So in that case, we should be swapping the entire genus Thalpius to a subgenus of Pseudaptinus?
No, I wouldn't think so
From above, i think the original questions are answered - Thalpius seems to now be a subgenus, and that includes Pseudaptinus (Thalpius) pygmaeus (Dejean, 1826)
But firstly, the user of the forum who asked the question (@dull2shinetoo ), i think needs to be notified that for an observation as "Thalpius pygmaeus" they should put it with the already existing Pseudaptinus pygmaeus
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/19292970
Then secondly, more broadly, then (i agree that) something needs to happen for curation with those other 128 observations currently under "Thalpius".
But, i think the taxonomy we reflect here can be done even better, making the wider subquestion about the subgenera and their limits: From what i see there should be two subgenera under Zuphiina: Pseudaptinus, namely:
Pseudaptinus (Pseudaptinus) and Pseudaptinus (Thalpius).
Please note that most of the species in iNaturalist that are detailed under Pseudaptinus seem to be Pseudaptinus (Thalpius). Most of those names seem sourced from the 10 "Thalpius" listed in this USA and Mexico focused paper
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3286242/pdf/ZooKeys-147-419.pdf
Here's how the source Caribid catalog overviews. http://www.carabidfauna.com/checklist.php
Feedback on that would be useful, the catalog seems a couple of years out of date. If it were butterflies then they would have made many revisions and conflicting transfers in that time!
Tribe Zuphiina, Genus Pseudaptinus LAPORTE 1834
Sg. Pseudaptinus s.str.
Pseudaptinus albicornis (KLUG 1834)
Pseudaptinus borgmeieri LIEBKE 1939
Pseudaptinus championi LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus cribratus LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus elegans (CHAUDOIR 1863)
Pseudaptinus insularis MUTCHLER 1934
Pseudaptinus lecontei (DEJEAN 1831) [See bugguide]
Pseudaptinus leprieuri (BUQUET 1835)
Pseudaptinus magicus LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus mimicus LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus nevermanni LIEBKE 1936
Pseudaptinus ohausi LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus oviceps VANDYKE 1926
Pseudaptinus punctatus LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus salebrosus LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus subfasciatus (CHAUDOIR 1863)
Pseudaptinus tenuicollis (LECONTE 1851) [See bugguide]
Pseudaptinus thaxteri DARLINGTON 1934
Sg. Thalpius LECONTE 1851
Pseudaptinus apicalis DARLINGTON 1934
Pseudaptinus aptinoides LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus argentinicus LIEBKE 1929
Pseudaptinus arrogans LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus australis (BLACKBURN 1889)
Pseudaptinus batesii (CHAUDOIR 1863)
Pseudaptinus bierigi LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus brittoni BAEHR 1985
Pseudaptinus bruchi LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus brunneus LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus cubanus (CHAUDOIR 1877) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus cyclophthalmus BAEHR 1985
Pseudaptinus deceptor DARLINGTON 1934 [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus depressipennis BAEHR 1995
Pseudaptinus dorsalis (BRULLÉ 1834) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus fluvialis LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus fulvus (LAPORTE 1867)
Pseudaptinus granulosus (CHAUDOIR 1872)
Pseudaptinus gregoryensis BAEHR 2008
Pseudaptinus hirsutulus BAEHR 1985
Pseudaptinus hoegei (BATES 1883) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus horni (CHAUDOIR 1872) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus intermedius (CHAUDOIR 1872)
Pseudaptinus iridescens BAEHR 1985
Pseudaptinus lugubris LIEBKE 1934
Pseudaptinus marginicollis DARLINGTON 1934 [Note: 2 ssp marginicollis/fumipes]
Pseudaptinus microcephalus (VANDYKE 1926) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus monteithi BAEHR 1985
Pseudaptinus nobilis LIEBKE 1934 [see Messer, 2011. Note: syn. schmidti LIEBKE 1936]
Pseudaptinus parallelus BAEHR 2008
Pseudaptinus plaumanni LIEBKE 1939
Pseudaptinus polystichoides (CHAUDOIR 1863)
Pseudaptinus punctatostriatus BAEHR 1985
Pseudaptinus pygmaeus (DEJEAN 1826) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus rufulus (LECONTE 1851) [see Messer, 2011]
Pseudaptinus simplex LIEBKE 1934 [see Messer, 2011]
And as those two subdivisions and their formation seem consistent across several places i've looked now, then i've built that same subgeneric scheme into wikispecies
https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pseudaptinus
Back to the issue of those '128 observations', as usual primarily from the USA. In bugguide for genus they only list two species Pseudaptinus lecontei and Pseudaptinus tenuicollis - both these in the subgeneric scheme above are in Pseudaptinus (Pseudaptinus) instead.
Ok, further things,
I now found that some overlapping discussion was going on here and the observation that seems to have started this:
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/177429552
Else to point out that bugguide lists many of those "Pseudaptinus (Thalpius)" under Thalpius as if valid genus
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/177429552
I thought maybe they could do with a shift, but
Thanks to @dull2shinetoo, seems some further investigation was made:
"The treatment will be "Thalpius pygmaeus Dejean, 1826" in my forthcoming sequel paper on Thalpius of North America. The return of Thalpius to genus status is corroborated by Ball & Shpeley in a 2013 article. The earlier catalogue by Bousquet (2012) had treated Thalpius as a subgenus of Pseudaptinus.
… Peter W. Messer,"
Posted by dull2shinetoo 1 day ago (Flag)
[and here's Ball & Shpeley 2013 ]
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/251235998_Western_Hemisphere_Zuphiini_Descriptions_of_Coarazuphium_whiteheadi_new_species_and_Zuphioides_new_genus_and_classification_of_the_genera_Coleoptera_Carabidae
@pmesser states: "...regarding the distinction of Pseudaptinus (Pseudaptinus) versus Pseudaptinus (Thalpius). The current consensus among several authorities (including me) is to elevate the two subgenera to genus rank." https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/189224340
@pmesser, can you add some insights here?
iNaturalist taxonomy currently doesn't include subgenera within Subtribe Zuphiina. It would be nice if we either had species in subgenera or separated out following BugGuide taxonomy. The way it is now is causing confusion.
I do not know to what degree users of social-science platforms are currently struggling with the distinctions of subgenera Pseudaptinus (Pseudaptinus) versus Pseudaptinus (Thalpius) or of genera Pseudaptinus versus Thalpius. The current consensus among recent authorities (including me) is to elevate the two subgenera to genus rank. That general agreement would remove the taxonomic confusion I hope. I believe BugGuide.net accepts the genus ranks.
Background: The species key to North American subgenus Thalpius by Messer (2011) and the North American Geadephaga catalogue by Bousquet (2012) both endorsed the two subgenera treatments. Those opinions were acknowledged by George E. Ball and Danny Shpeley (2013). However, these authors proposed their transfers to genus ranks in a key to the Western Hemisphere genera of tribe Zuphiini on pages 53–54. Furthermore, in a forthcoming expanded species identification key, I will treat North American Thalpius as genus.
Reference:
George E. Ball & Danny Shpeley (2013). Western Hemisphere Zuphiini: descriptions of Coarazuphium whiteheadi, new species, and Zuphioides, new genus, and classification of the genera (Coleoptera, Carabidae). ZooKeys 315: 17–54. https://zookeys.pensoft.net/article/3327/
Please see https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/190139241 in which species "horni" (and likely other species) still need to be redirected to genus "Thalpius".
Just adding comment here, to bring back some awareness of unresolved issues for iNat Taxonomy here
See also here: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/191303435
I will implement the changes next week
@thebeachcomber
Next week is also ok for me, if you want to divide task, i can likely join. Or just try to co-ordinate some reflective changes on the other websites - for example i'm concurrently fixing some wikipedia, wikidata and wikispecies stuff when i do other iNaturalist updates - i could push reflective changes on these
I have now moved all species into their respective genera, and also added the 40 or so names across the two genera that were not yet in iNat
Much appreciated, thank you!
@pmesser
Today I checked iNaturalist for the species now treated as either genus Pseudaptinus or genus Thalpius. The current classification is in agreement with the previous subgenera assignments in the World Geadephaga catalogue by Lorenz 2005. Thank you for that.
per https://forum.inaturalist.org/t/need-page-added-for-thalpius-pygmaeus/44042, someone requested that Thalpius pygmaeus be added. However, is this genus currently a valid one? On iNat, the genus exists and has over 100 observations, but there are currently zero species grafted under it. Should Thalpius even be a valid genus here, or should it be moved to a subgenus of Pseudaptinus?